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Original Message
Forum Muslim Schools 
Topic Islamic Schools 
Author Administrator Administrator 
Date Created 17/07/2002 18:23:06 
Message Do we need Islamic Schools ? 
      
Responses
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Rukia Nakamatte 
Date Created 22/11/2002 13:28:07 
Message Yes we do need Islamic schools because they teach the young ones about religion. This helps not to erode the Islamic faith which is being accussed of terrolism 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Husain Akhtar 
Date Created 10/02/2003 14:11:44 
Message Just a thought about madrassa v school. I think the key difference between what madrassa and western school do is that the former develops pupils whole personality within the context that education is to understand Nature and how to relate to IT physically, morally, socially, politically (if that is a correct phrase) and economically. Development of knowledge is purposeful and includes all sciences needed for a peaceful co-existence with self and Nature, including the skills and drive to obtain and implement 'peace' through Islamic means. With the clonialisation, past and present, spirit of mudrassas has been systematically killed and people look at western education institutions which are perceived to bring success though 'success' is widely misunderstood. Western school operates without any worthwhile cause and the only thing it does is to screen and differentiate productive and non-productive products on behalf of the society in terms of ‘successes and ‘failures’. It is full of conflicts and contradictions, leading to disaffection which the western societies find extremely difficult to address. For example, the UK, despite all its expertise in ‘education’, has repeatedly failed in developing effective curriculum for its youngsters who have no interest in the education based on dominant norms. The west has indeed advanced in science and technology and the information is good and worth having but with the caution that it relates to the rootless capitalism which has no moral or social cause and programme to improve the quality of life. Muslims who have working knowledge and skills to distil right from wrong and have a clear definition of ‘success’ need not fear from western education. 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Arthur 
Date Created 06/06/2003 18:00:30 
Message I would disagree - although it has been interesting to visit this site!

I am white, Christian but have deliberatly chosen not to send my child to a Church of England school (for which a place was offered), but instead to my local authority school, so my child can meet and learn with a fair sample of the local population (statistics of local school: 70% have English as second language of which 90% are Muslim)

I take my child to Church on Sunday to gain their religion, backed up by my wife and I and do not feel it is the school's issue - they should give education in the core subjects. I do not want my child to grow up thinking the world (or England) is middle class, white & Christian- it is not- it is a wonderful diversity. In the same way, would Muslim schools really help us all get on, appreciate and understand each other?? 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Lea 
Date Created 11/06/2003 22:42:47 
Message i am a catholic, but InSh'ALLAH will be a muslim soon, when i convert this year. I think the idea of an islamic school is excellent. I would love to know that my future children could go to a school that teaches everything an ordinary school does, but the extras about islam, how to pray, how to behave, a school serving only halal, where the boys and girls can learn in a safe environment, wearing hijab and feeling free, not embarrassed of their actions and behaviour. I support the idea of a muslim school, but knowing our government it will be a long time before they consider such an idea. InSh'ALLAH some thing will be done.  
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Ian Upton 
Date Created 13/06/2003 13:46:32 
Message
Iftikhar,

You have some interesting views but I totally disagree with your perception that all Muslim Children "Demand" Muslim schools.

I have experience totally the opposite. I went to school alongside a number of Muslim friends who the majority (More than 75%) have been successful and are now following academia, are doctors, or have other highly successful careers. Many studied hard and have been successful and happy in their careers. In comparison to Non Ethnic minorities there were a higher percentage of top grade students from our school who were specifically from ethnic minority backgrounds.

As for your comments: “There is no arrangement for the younger generation to learn Arabic and Urdu languages in schools. They are unable to read and understand Islamic literature and poetry making them cut off from their cultural roots.”

Why should there be?

I would have liked the opportunity to learn these languages as everyone else would but we never had lessons available in school for many different languages such as Polish , Chinese, Cantonese and so forth in our schools. Can you tell me how many schools in Pakistan teach Polish, Chinese or Cantonese to Non Ethnic minority children?

You said “They should blame themselves for ignoring the needs and demands of the Muslim children who need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers”

If I were to go to any Asian continent with my children to find a better life for them I would fully expect I would adapt to the way of life in that country. I certainly would not start campaigning to force my ideals onto that country so it would have to cater for my every need and whim making demands because of my beliefs.

The only discrimination I see is the persistent and growing discrimination of NON Ethnic, English, Heterosexual Males who are persistently disadvantaged in today’s politically correct mad England whilst in fear of raising their country’s flag and speaking out about it because they fear they will be labelled a racist. And before you try to label me one of my Muslim Asian school friends is the godfather of my child.
 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Sohaib Sandhu 
Date Created 17/06/2003 00:56:38 
Message People ultimately have the choice to decide where they wish to send their children. My own experience is that "Religious" schools help in inculcating a sense of responsibility, respect and dignity along with an intellectual rigour. My children go to a so-called Muslim School. If this option was not available, I would have opted for a Church of England/Catholic or similar School. In so-called "normal schools" the value goal posts are constantly moving, teachers are not really the "budding examples" they once were and unfortunately the children come out not knowing right from wrong. For those who say that people should be adopting the "local" culture, well, I can confidently say that Islamic culture is a part of British culture, just like Islamic Scientific History is a base of existing Western Sciencific culture and knowledge. The word Algebra originates from Arabic. The fact is that the decision to send ones child to a Muslim School is based on a comparison of alternatives and for many of us Muslims, Muslim Schools are the better option. No one is teaching hatred, segregation or the like. Go to your local Muslim School and ask them for a guided tour of the school or even what the kids are being taught. For those who feel that they are being forced into political correctness or feel hard done by..don't. Communicate the issues, you'll be surprised at the number of Muslims ready to take your side in helping you resolve your frustrations and anxieties. Islam is a part of Britain and and Western Culture. People should accept this. Lets get on with life and see how we can help each other. If kids at our schools are being taught to respect their elders, look out for their neighbour, be responsible towards society and basically be a model citizen and also believe that there is more to life than material wealth, then is that really a bad thing?  
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Ian Upton 
Date Created 20/06/2003 11:25:23 
Message

Assalamualakum Sohiba,

I think you have hit the nail on the head in your last few comments about kids being taught to respect their elders.


However I disagree with your claim that teachers should be wholly responsible for teaching these principles.

I don’t think for one minute that responsibility, respect and dignity should be taught in school.

Respect is something taught by parents from an early age and I would expect that if one went to school they would automatically respect their teacher, as they should any adult rather than have it "Taught" to them.

Respect isn't something gained by qualification or through teaching it's earned and something which should be conveyed by the parents to the child from an early age.

Unfortunately parents are no longer allowed to even tap their own children on the hand. Here is a prime example:-

My first lesson in respect was when I started to put my finger in the fire as a child. Not only was I saved from being burnt at the time the tap on the back on my hand gave me an association that putting my finger in a red hot electric fire meant danger. I learned respect through being taught right and wrong through association. It is how all humans learn.

Asian families I grew up around had similar values of teaching respect and it worked but now similarly across the board the Parents way of teaching respect and rights of parents have been depleted through our insane politically correct system.

I also disagree with your comment "Islam is a part of Britain and Western Culture. People should accept this."

I agree that Islam is NOW part of western culture but as do many other people in this country I disagree to have Ideals forced upon me, which I don’t agree with irrespective of their origins.

Please remember it is only relatively recent in the last 100 years that Islam has become more prominent in the UK.There is nothing wrong with this and England is one of the most welcoming societies in Europe for Asylum seekers and Immigrants but To force your ideals onto people just because of your beliefs though is wrong.


 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Sohaib Sandhu 
Date Created 20/06/2003 12:08:34 
Message Ian,

I stand corrected. I should have added that parents are the real basis behind the "education" of our children and within that is the teaching of respect that you talk about. Your finger in the fire example is really good. I really appreciate it. Its just like when my parents taught me about lowering my gaze when seeing someone of the opposite sex and not to look at them as if that person was an object of sexual desire etc. Yes, you are right (you have really hit the nail on the head on this point) that Parents are not being allowed to be parents. Not that I am suggesting even a "tap", but that society is being weaned off the idea of discipline and confusing the issues of child abuse with parenting rights. I would add at this point, that I believe that this is where "faith" has a part to play. Specifically, that we are taught by "GOD" that parents must be respected and that similarly parents must love their children and that the teaching of these ideas is fundamental to a healthy society. In a godless society those principles do not seem to be there. I am commenting based on my general observations of society at large. I strongly believe that child sexual abuse is a symptom of the lack of clarity about the parent child relationship as a result of this godlessness.
Addressing your other point - The idea of forcing ones ideas on others is anatheama to Islam and if people are being "forced" to accept anything, then there is something wrong. Its through knowledge, understanding and communication that ideas can be exchanged and understood. Let me add here, that much of the information and IDEAS we are fed through the media and other outlets is really "forced" upon us. There has to be a channel to respond to ideas, so that all sides can get a "look in". I have a lot of sympathy for people who feel that somehow they are missing out or are being marginalised because of other groups of people. They need to be heard and there grievances addressed. Good sense would always prevail if everyone was listened to.

 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author J.C. Llimerand 
Date Created 09/07/2003 13:14:01 
Message Personally as a non-religious person, I think religious schools are racist and divisive and will only serve to further divisions in this country. 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author J.C.Llimerand 
Date Created 09/07/2003 13:15:08 
Message Well said Arthur. Religion should be kept out of school, and the various groups within our population should be encouraged to mix as much as possible. Otherwise we may well say balkanisation and serious strife in a few generations in this country. 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Sohaib Sandhu 
Date Created 09/07/2003 13:56:04 
Message If religion is decisive, then why did Malcolm X decide to become Muslim? 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Lea  
Date Created 10/07/2003 02:52:55 
Message Malcolm X becoming a muslim is nothing to do with this. A muslim school will not be a way of separating muslim and non muslim children. it will be a place for muslims and non muslims to come to learn together in a plce that can suit their needs, as i mentioned in a a previous post, abiding by prayer times, eating halal, learning values of life. not a way to split the community, a muslim school does not only have to be for muslims, anyone should be able to attend, and learn for whatever reasons of their choice. When talking about islam, stop thinking about famous people you can mention, islam should be great enough by itself without having to mention Malcolm X and others, these are ordinary people who may have converted for their own reasons, they do not make islam better, they only join a religion which is shared by many.

In my town one of the secondary schools, serves halal food , prepacked burgers and other items, but one school is not enough. halal should be as widely available through large stores and InSh'ALLAH Tesco will start selling halal food, when i recently filled in a questionaire for the store, it said what would you be interesting in seeing on the shelves, and i ticked halal, if more people did the same, then possibly they would take notice. 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Ian Upton 
Date Created 10/07/2003 11:48:36 
Message I would agree with the point raised that Religious schools are inherently divisive by their very nature. If its good or bad depends on your perpective but I can see good and bad in arguments for both sides.


If I was forced to choose though I would force schools to depart from religion totally so that the childs education can become the most important focus which is what schools are supposed to be about.

Relgion can still be practised irrespective of education and if we are, indeed ,to build a respectable unified society we certainly cannot continue down the mad routes we are going down today.

This goes for all schools, catholic,church and islamic.

I would also agree that famous people following a religion has totally nothing to do with it although it may be interesting to note if for nothing more that what I would call "Party Chat".

I certainly wasnt aware Cat Stevens followed the Muslim Faith until recently.Strangely enough though after he gave up much of his brilliant Music.I know here in Bolton he raised Money with the release of a record for the Muslim Girls School I believe, which was quite generous of him.
 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Sohaib Sandhu 
Date Created 10/07/2003 15:39:58 
Message The point I made about Malcom X was relevant to the earlier point made - above, about Islam being racist. The point being made, is that as Malcolm X was involved very heavily in the anti-racist movement and therefore there was a contradiction in saying that Islam and therefore Islamic shools were teaching racism. So, the point was a relevant in that context.
I find that people very casually seem to think that so-called religious schools are devisive. Where is the evidence?
 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Ian Upton 
Date Created 10/07/2003 19:00:14 
Message "Divisive"

definition :

"Creating, or tending to create, division, separation, or difference."

Reference http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=divisive

1. Is say a catholic school in its teachings not "different" to that of an Islamic school?

2. Does it not have "Different" religious teachings?

3. Are Catholic and Islamic schools not totally seperate?

Therefore in its very nature creating a positive subliminal division between those children who attend them.
 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Rezbi 
Date Created 07/08/2003 03:28:16 
Message "I take my child to Church on Sunday to gain their religion, backed up by my wife and I and do not feel it is the school's issue - they should give education in the core subjects. I do not want my child to grow up thinking the world (or England) is middle class, white & Christian- it is not- it is a wonderful diversity. In the same way, would Muslim schools really help us all get on, appreciate and understand each other?? "

This is to answer Arthur question in the last sentence: Absolutely. I would highly recommend that you study, if only to find the answer for yourself, the behavioural aspects of Islam. It would be very difficult to answer your question on a board such as this to answer this question as it is a vast subject.

I think you would be surprised with the answer. It is always difficult to comprehend from the outside what you do not understand and I appreciate that but, unlike Christianity, we do not seperate the state from religion. islam is not just a religion, it is a comlplete way of life with codes of conduct in every area you could think of.

If you would like the names of any books, please email me and I'll try and find out some for you. Remember, I'm just trying to answer your question and nothing more. The rest would be entirely up to you. I hope this has been helpful to you.

My email is: rezbi@feelinglazy.co.uk 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author xxx 
Date Created 12/10/2003 02:49:21 
Message no, u dont need islamic schools. As a little child i was sent to school to learn subjects and to become a mature person. My parents thaught me about religion, by going to church i learnt about my religion. Religion is free, one one the few free things left to us and i think anyone should believe in their gods not to be forced into strict regimes and brainwashing as muslims usually do. I dont believe into people converting to another religion, because religion is not some type of fashion. In love you accept and respect each other for what u are, but unfortunately for muslims it doesnt work that way. My biggest sins were committed through someone who prayed five times, married with kids and called himself a good muslim. Is a good muslim someone who is cheating, betraying, lying, making false statements and forcing the others to have an abortion? These things happen in Islam too, so dont predicate if u dont know what u r talking about 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author xxx 
Date Created 12/10/2003 02:49:21 
Message no, u dont need islamic schools. As a little child i was sent to school to learn subjects and to become a mature person. My parents thaught me about religion, by going to church i learnt about my religion. Religion is free, one one the few free things left to us and i think anyone should believe in their gods not to be forced into strict regimes and brainwashing as muslims usually do. I dont believe into people converting to another religion, because religion is not some type of fashion. In love you accept and respect each other for what u are, but unfortunately for muslims it doesnt work that way. My biggest sins were committed through someone who prayed five times, married with kids and called himself a good muslim. Is a good muslim someone who is cheating, betraying, lying, making false statements and forcing the others to have an abortion? These things happen in Islam too, so dont predicate if u dont know what u r talking about 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Just Joe 
Date Created 21/02/2004 22:55:08 
Message All religion is a waste of time, you've been brainwashed by your parents. 30,000 muslims killed in the Iran earthquake - what good did praying to Allah 3 times a day do them?

wise up before its too late:

RELIGION IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE

It's only purpose is to control the masses for the benefit of the few, whether they be government, priests, mullahs etc. 
 
 
Topic Re: Islamic Schools 
Author Sohaib Sandhu 
Date Created 22/02/2004 22:36:59 
Message Now this last thread does not make any sense

All religion is a waste of time, you've been brainwashed by your parents - okay - all secularism is a waste of time, you've been brainwashed by your parents and society

Wise up before its too late:

SECULARISM IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE. You sound like a fanatic.
SECULARISM - It's only purpose is to control the masses for the benefit of the few, whether they be government, priests, mullahs etc.  
 
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