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Topic Why Islam! 
Author Mian Mohammed Shareef 
Date Created 14/06/2005 18:12:51 
Message Why Islam!

God sent Prophets and Messengers for the guidance of mankind in all the nations, in all the lands and at all times.

As all the religions are based on the Divine Message revealed through Prophets of God, Messengers of God, their prime ethics and norms are same.

There are three prominent Religions, which are known as the Religions of Book, Judaism with Torah (the Law of Moses) and Psalms of David, then is the Christianity with Old and New Testaments (Injeel), and the last is Islam with Qura’n which is in sequence of the former two religions.

The Qura’n has categorically confirmed that all the former three Books, mentioned above, which form the Old and New Testaments were revealed by God, the same God.

Here is, how it is mentioned in Qura’n:-

He (God) has revealed to you (Muhammed) the Book with the truth, confirming what preceded it; and He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel (Injeel) for the guidance of mankind, and the distinction between right and wrong. Chapter 3:3)

It further states:- God did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham and the family of Imran above all the people; Offspring, of one another, God hear and know all things. (Chapter 3:34) Also it addressed the Israelites and the Christians as under:-

O’ ye People of the Book! Believe in what We have (now) revealed confirming what is already with you, (Chapter 4 verse 47).

And (see) when We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (between right and wrong) there was a chance for you (the Israelites) to be guided.(Ch.2 verse53).

Qura’n has addressed first to the Arabs in whose language it was revealed then to the Israelites and the Christians and then the whole mankind to receive the divine guidance

Unfortunately these former Books are not in its original and true form. These Books have been revised a number of times by the “Eminent People” of the Christian Hierarchy right from the beginning. Also the religion was transformed to the Churchism

Here is a concrete example:
According to the Revised Standard Version of the Bible of 1952 AD, as printed by the Catholic Truth Society London (UK) in 1966, the Deuteronomy 18 verse 18-19 read as under:-
“18. I will raise up for them liken you from among their brethren and I will put
My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.”
“19. And whomever will not give heed to My words, which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.”

When one of the great Muslim scholars of the time, Mr. Ahmed Didat proved that “their (Israelites) brethren” means the Ishmaelites and that “ the prophet like you (the Moses) as promised is Muhammed (peace be upon him) and not Jesus Christ, the Biblical Societies instead of accepting the truth and follow it, started another exercise to change the Words Of God so as to read the Deut. 18 verse 18 as under:-
“I will send them a prophet from among their own people, I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command.”
(Ref: Good News Bible, printed in Gr. Britain by Harper Collins Manufacturing, Glasgow- July 1979.)
They had to change the similar quotation, which appeared in ACTS 3.22. This quotation now reads:- “For Moses said,’ The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people. You are to obey everything that he tells you to do’.

One can see, observe and judge how far the Bible, if it is the words of God, can stand authentic, when it can be changed by the Biblical Societies (who are not prophets) as, when and how they require.
Contrary to what is stated in Qur’an that Injeel (the New Testament) is a revealed book of God, it is now a sort of Biography of Jesus Christ written by various Saints viz. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. You can take it as Holy Book but not the Words of God.
There are number of reasons, arguments why then Islam should be followed and not any other religion.
First of all; that is how God has declared in Qur’an, “If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of Him,” (Chapter 3 verse 85).

1 With Islam, the Book – Qur’an is a complete and comprehensive guidance from God. To follow the former Books viz. Old and new Testaments is like if a University Graduate is asked to resume for primary or secondary education standard.

Some of the divine laws according to Qur’an are narrated below;

i) To do justice, witness for Allah even though it be against yourself or your parents or your kinsfolk, whether it be against a rich or poor, for Allah is nearer unto both. So do not follow your passions, lest you swerve, and ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice; surely Allah is well acquainted with all ye do. (Chapter 4:135).
ii) Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not in what is aggressive and sinful. And fear God, for God is strict in punishment.(Chapter 5:2)
iii) Gambling and alcohol are the deed of Satan. These acts are unclean and detested. Eschew them so that ye may prosper. (Chapter 5:90)
iv) And come not near unto adultery for it is a shameful (deed) and leading to other evils (and also diseases like AIDS) (Chapter 17:32).
v) Believers (Men) shall lower their gaze and guard modesty and the women believers shall also lower their gaze, and shall not display their adornments except what is apparent, and draw their veils over their bosoms. God is well acquainted with all they do. (Chapter 24:30,31)
vi) The extreme desire of wealth can lead you to adopt unlawful means and wickedness. So Allah has enjoined on us not to hoard money and money-worth. (Chapter 2:219).
vii) Do not take unlawfully, among yourselves the property (money and money-worth), except it be a trade by mutual consent (without duress), and kill not yourselves; indeed Allah is ever merciful unto you. Whoever commits that, in transgression and injustice, We shall cast them into the to the Fire (of Hell). (Chapter 4:29,30).
viii) Whoever kills a believer willfully, his requital and the destiny is Hell forever, Allah is wrathful with him, has damned him and for him is an immense punishment. (Chapter 4:93)

Islamic Jehad, which is greatly resented by the West and all others, is ordained on the believers like it was ordained on other believers lived before Islam and on Israelites also; see 1 Samuel 15: 1-9. I
It is not just like wielding the sword, in transgression, here and there.
In Qura’n (Chapter 2) God orders thus:
“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not the transgressors. (Verse 190);

For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter;
And fight them on until there is no more tumult and oppression, and there prevail Justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. (Verses 192,193)

And why shall ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are oppressed? Men, women and children, whose cry is: “Our Lord ! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from Thee, one who will protect; and raise for us from Thee one who help! (Chapter 4:75)

God has also asked the believers thus:
“O ye who believe! Take not My enemies and yours as friends (or protectors), offering them (your) love, even though they have rejected the truth that has come to you. (Chapter 60:1)
Take not life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law; thus doth He commands you, that ye may learn wisdom. (Chapter 6:151)..

Qura’n has a great depth and guidance in every aspect of the life .Any one, who wishes to seek the truth, will find the material in this Book immensely. That is why, perhaps, there are Research Departments in almost all the prominent Universities of the West; it may be for purposes otherwise as some of the Orientlists have tried to distort or change the words of Qura’n. But they could not succeed because Qura’n is learnt by heart by hundreds and thousands of Muslims in all the times since its revelation.
It is also stated in Qura’n for its purity: “We have, without doubt, revealed the Qura’n, and We will certainly preserve it. (Chapter 15:9)
This is a beauty of Qura’n that it always speak of the prophets or other reverend personalities like Abraham, Moses Solomon and Mary (peace be on all of them), in a nice and graceful tone, never a blasphemous. No Muslim on the earth will, therefore, ever talk of the messengers and prophets of biblical and pre-biblical era; in blasphemy He is always reverent to all of them as is desired by God.

In the end it may be very much appropriate to mention the words of God where He warned those who violate or reject the verses of Qura’n and treat them with arrogance.
“Gates of Heaven shall not be opened for them nor shall they enter Paradise until a camel shall pass through the eye of a needle. (Chapter 7:40)

2 Books, which form the basis of other Religions than Islam are distorted, as mentioned above. So their “Divine Rules” do not stand authentic. On the contrary Qura’n is in its original and true form (it is also preserved in the hearts of hundred and thousands of Muslims), right from the days it was revealed.
3 In all other “Divine Books” no emphasis is given to do the right things and refrain from bad deeds. Nor there is precisely mentioned what shall be the reward of good deeds and likewise the punishment for the bad deeds.
The result is, that entire Christian world, especially the West, is grossly violating the teachings of Jesus Christ, i.e. what is contained in the Bible.

i) Jesus condemned adultery, or even to think of it, and is said to be crime, a big sin. (Matt. 5.28,29)
ii) But the adultery is very common in the West; even there are instances of incest, an extremely shameful act. There is also homosexuality which is even legalized in a number of faithful countries, a crime for which God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen.19.24, 25)
iii) Jesus has condemned the Divorce. (Matt. 5.31) But it is so common especially in the West, that families are being disintegrated causing a great deal of unrest and chaos in the Society.
iv) Teaching about revenge. (Matthew.5) “ 38.You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth’. 39. But now I tell you: do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, let him slap your left cheek too.”

Now see what is happening, specifically, with the Muslim countries. Their people and the infrastructure are being destroyed by the great Christian powers, only on false accusations and for no revenge (even) due on them. These powers have now admitted that reports of C.I.A. were not correct. Instead of feeling sorry for what they have done they asserted that they have done nothing wrong. Still, these aggressors are in a wishful thinking that few drops of Jesus’ blood would save them from the Hell Fire in punishment. But God is not unjust that He would pardon these aggressors for what they have done to His creation, the innocent people.
Qura’n has given full rights to take the revenge on aggressor, but of the same level and kind. But has also advised that if you forgive the aggressor, the reward for that shall be with God.
Now see what is the teaching of Qura’n in a similar situation when somebody has reported about a community or a nation, which seems to be serious.
“O ye, the believers! If an evil-doer brings you a piece of news, inquire first into its truth, lest you should do wrong unwittingly and afterward become full of repentance for what ye have done.” (Chapter 49.6)
With this Qura’nic teaching no Muslim could even imagine to do what U.S.A. and Britain had done to Afghanistan and Iraq; genocide of the two nations.

It is true unfortunately, that many people who claim to be Muslims do lead a sinful life. It is due to lack of or no knowledge of Islamic Teaching. The fault lies with the method of imparting Islamic Teaching in the present time, and not with Islam. Also it is a long time effect of colonial rules, when European glamour attracted the ignorant people. Besides this the Christian Missionaries proselytize by all means. Muslim Missionaries would never do that; they are sincere and straightforward in conveying the message of Islam.
In Islam, a person who is well off in its teaching or even a common Muslim would never think of leaving Islam to join any other religion. On the contrary you will see many people, even with a good knowledge of their own religion, especially the Christians have converted to Islam. Some of them are now even preaching Islam.

There is no racial or colour discrimination in Islam. All the human beings are equal and are supposed to treat each other like brothers. Qura’n says: The most honorable of you in the sight of God is he who is the most righteous of you. Chapter 49:13)
In Christianity, White people (the Europeans) consider themselves a superior class over all the others especially the Blacks.

See the book “The Hundred” written by Michael Hard who put the name of Muhammed (peace be upon him) in the first place and that of Umar Ibn-e-Khattab (R.A.) at the second and then of the Jesus Christ (P.B.U.H). This a clear and living proof of “Role Models” in Islam as well as in the History to follow

As for the question, why the Muslims and Muslim Countries are in a miserable condition, there are a number of reasons for this;

1. Right in the time of Prophet Muhammed (Peace be upon him) when Jewish community of Madina (the town, then, was known as Yasreb) failed to stop spreading of Islam some of them joined Islam falsely which means they played a role of Hypocrites. They tried to damage the system afterward and managed to change the Caliphate into the Kingdom with all its evils.
2. Over the times, unfortunately, we left the teaching of Islam; what to say of conveying it to others, which was the prime object and duty of Muslims. Because the Islam is a universal method of life, superseding all the previous religions, as was desired by God and not by any community; it is a will of God and not of any other individual. So the result is that, the Muslims are suffering because they ignored the will of God.
3. There was a time of Renaissance in Europe when Christian countries explored new areas of the World. They violated the teaching of Bible by breaking the promises with the natives of many countries in Asia and Africa, when they came there in disguise of traders, and established their colonies. In fact they invented a proverb that “Every thing is fair in Love and War,” a big and horrible evil in view of the Divine Law. That particular character is still prevailing in some Western Powers. .

An example of treachery in the recent History;
Pakistan which was created on the ideology of Islam, was, unfortunately, caught in the net of SEATO and CENTO (Treaties) where Pakistan (not India) was ally to the West under the leadership of the United States; Treaties to help each other in case of outside aggression.
In 1965 war between India and Pakistan, United States helped India instead of Pakistan, its own ally.
Once again Pakistan is serving as a Front line State to fight against terrorism but we are made to suffer in the hands of India and Kabul (a newly formed Govt. through United States). We, the Muslims do not go against our promise and treaties, not even against the worst enemies unless they violate the treaty first. This is how it is enjoined on us in Holy Qura’n. No Muslim can dare to violate it for the worldly benefits. Perhaps others (the Non-Muslims) consider this as our week point.

Even today the main target of the West, Israelites and the Hindus is to eliminate Islam. Let us see how God wishes. Surprisingly, in the enmity of Islam, the West has gone against all its moral values and the Biblical visions, to give an undue support, at all occasions, to a grossly pagan country, the India. The West and all its “Philanthropists” have closed their eyes towards what happened in Indian Gujarat and what is happening in Indian-Held Kashmir and elsewhere in India; an act of naked State terrorism. Instead, they blame Pakistan of cross-border terrorism. What a justice!

Soon after the mishap of 9/11, 2001 President Bush declared CRUSADE. Although he said later on, “Sorry for using the word Crusade.” Nevertheless, he carried out his aim of crusade. Can somebody tell whom Mr. Bush wants to please; is He the God of Christian or the God of Universe? Does he think that Christian and Muslims have different Gods?

This is also a mystery to solve, that people of the lands i.e. Afghans and Iraqis are terrorists and insurgents and the people who invaded the lands of Afghans and Iraqis and destroyed them to their roots are comrades and the saviors.
But one thing, we all should keep in mind that “Man proposes God disposes. This universe and this world belong to God only, the God of universe. God will not let Islam to be eliminated or its followers. It is rather cleansing of the Muslim community.
Yes, Insha-Allah (If God Wills) we will survive to convey the message of Qura’n in true spirits

Thanks.
Mian M.Shareef,
mmshareef@gmail.com
Dated 14th June, 2005.
 
      
Responses
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author MaureenDavies 
Date Created 18/06/2005 02:07:22 
Message Mian Mohammed Shareef: I am responding o a small portion of your thread at this time.
Re that christians are not following the teachings of Jesus: - Most christians do follow his teachings. The practice of divorce and incest are by and large committed by secularists. Having said that, I wonder if you are aware that sociologists have declared that all races and cultures (and that includes members of Islam) have proportional representation in these acts? In other words, there are no societies on earth that do not have incest etc., I suggest you approach the women's refuges and discover what some of the Muslim women have to say on the subject. It is an eye opener, and a sordid one at that.
As for white christians considering themselves superior to non-whites (excepting the K K clan and nazis) it is not true. How would African christians fit into this category? I do not know one person from my church who has this attitude. Am I right in thinking that Muslims think themselves superior to Hindus? That was my impression in India some years ago.
 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author M.M.Shareef 
Date Created 23/06/2005 11:43:44 
Message Rejoinder to Why Islam!
(reply to Maureen Davies)

It would have been appropriate if you had discussed the evolution in Religions of Books as I tried to do. You have raised instead a few points almost vague.

A person cannot be a Christian as well as secularist at one time. I admire the American Press; it does not hide the facts unless it is related to the Muslim World positively.

According to the FBI and Associated Press of America:-
In the year 2003, 93,323 women were raped and every year around four hundred thousand children are sexually abused. Fifty four ladies officers in Airport Academy Colorado lodged complaints of rape against them. It will be agreed that all the culprits were neither secularist nor the Muslims; and all this happened in United States.
In the year 2004 cases of child-sex-abuse ere investigated against 754 (seven hundred and fifty four) priest of Catholic Church.

We deny the existing of evils in the Muslim society yet the crime rate is at the lowest percentage and that too is the “blessing” of the electronic media which has penetrated into Muslim society too. It is also due to the Western Heroes like Lawrence of Arabia and many others who caused the spoiling of the Muslim societies.

As far as Hindus are concerned you may be the first person ever who have pleaded for them. Even during the British Raaj in Indian Sub-continent (i.e. before 1947} Hindus have been treating the Muslims as untouchables. During the time when you visited India they have become rather brutes for the Muslims; see what they have done to the Muslims, who are in a big majority, in Gujarat and what they did with Babari Mosque of Ayyudhya in Uttar Pradesh; what they are doing with the Muslims in Indian-held Kashmir.
It seems, I am sorry to say, your hatred towards Muslims is at the highest level. I would therefore suggest you to study of Koran unbiased and see the result. We the Muslims who fear God cannot treat even the enemies biased and treacherously or with persecution.
With Regards: Mian M.Shareef, dated 23.06.05.  
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author Mian Mohammed Shareef 
Date Created 25/06/2005 15:16:56 
Message Rejoinder to Why Islam! [UPDATED REPLY]
(reply to Maureen Davies)

It would have been appropriate if you had discussed the evolution in Religions of Books as I tried to do. You have raised instead a few points almost vague.

Perhaps the Christian community cherish to eat pork; I don’t think there is an exception. However would you like to tell me about the prohibition of swine as in Deuteronomy 14.8 in conjunction with Matt: 5.17-20? Is this how you say that most Christians do follow his (Jesus- PBUH) teachings?

A person cannot be a Christian as well as secularist at one time. I admire the American Press; it does not hide the facts unless it is related to the Muslim World positively.
According to the FBI and Associated Press of America:-
In the year 2003, 93,323 women were raped and every year around four hundred thousand children are sexually abused. Fifty four ladies officers in Airport Academy Colorado lodged complaints of rape against them. It will be agreed that all the culprits were neither secularist nor the Muslims; and all this happened in United States.
In the year 2004 cases of child-sex-abuse ere investigated against 754 (seven hundred and fifty four) priest of Catholic Church.


We deny the existing of evils in the Muslim society yet the crime rate is at the lowest percentage and that too is the “blessing” of the electronic media which has penetrated into Muslim society too. It is also due to the Western Heroes like Lawrence of Arabia and many others who caused the spoiling of the Muslim societies.

As far as Hindus are concerned you may be the first person ever who have pleaded for them. Even during the British Raj in Indian Sub-continent (i.e. before 1947} Hindus have been treating the Muslims as untouchables. During the time when you visited India they have become rather brutes for the Muslims; see what they have done to the Muslims, who are in a big minority, in Gujarat and what they did with Babari Mosque of Ayyudhya in Uttar Pradesh; what they are doing with the Muslims in Indian-held Kashmir.
It seems, I am sorry to say, your hatred towards Muslims is at the highest level. I would therefore suggest you to study Koran unbiased and see the result. We the Muslims who fear God cannot treat even the enemies biased and treacherously or with persecution.
With Regards: Mian M.Shareef, dated 23.06.05.
 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author Free Way 
Date Created 25/06/2005 22:21:26 
Message "The Qura’n has categorically confirmed that all the former three Books, mentioned above, which form the Old and New Testaments were revealed by God, the same God."

In the Qur'an 3:62 it says, "There is no Ilah (God) except Allah". A history lesson on the word "ilah": "ilah," is the Arabic word for God, and Allah is the name of Muhammad’s god. Allah is never mentioned once in the Bible. The Name of the Christian and Jewish God is Yahwheh (YHWH), mentioned almost 7000 times in Scripture. Clearly not the same. 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author Maureen Davies 
Date Created 26/06/2005 04:58:41 
Message Mian Mohammed Shareef:
You mentioned the fact that I did not back up statements with religious quotes. There is no point in quoting from the evolution in the religion of books for these discussions. Have a look at other threads on this website. Many quotations from the scriptures have been given, and straight away someone from another religion returns with other quotes, - hence the debate goes round in circles. It is not how much we can quote from these books that counts with God, but how we live our lives.
The study you mentioned re the rape of women (Airport Academy Colorado) is too small to have any statistical significance. Look at sociological reports of the whole country and you will find that all societies and groups are represented in those awful acts.
As for pleading for the Hindu cause, I have to correct that now. My main objection to Hinduism is that it is not monotheistic and breaks the first two commandments, "Thou shalt have no other God but me". The comment I made about Muslims thinking themselves superior to Hindus is based on an observation whilst working in India some years ago, so please do not take offence by it.
I have read extensively on the damage to Mosques by Hindus and also about the damage to Hindu temple by Muslims. I think both are deplorable.
I would like to add here that I think the key to end all this bias is what I have put forward in a discussion with Iftikhar on another thread, that is, to educate future generations in a multi-faith schools. I see that most Muslims, some Christians and all secularists are against this, and I have been unable to understand why.
Free Way: If you are reading this, I re-affirm that I believe there is one God avove all. "Allah" is just another name for God. Muslims and Christians have interpreted God differently, but ultimately we are all heading the same way. I am praying that we will all find some common ground along the journey. 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author Free Way 
Date Created 26/06/2005 20:37:48 
Message Allah (Islam) is not Yahweh (Jewish-Christian). Just the way the Qur'an describes Allah compared to what the Scriptures say about Yahweh is completely different. Yahweh cannot inhabit Hell for He is seperated from there, but the Qur'an says Allah abides in Hell personally terrorising infidels. Then compare Yahshua's (Jesus) behaviour and Muhammad's, one was perfect and the other a murderous, paedophile, pirate, and rapist. 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author Nigel 
Date Created 17/07/2005 17:43:43 
Message If Christianity is racist, how come the Archbishop of York is a black African?

There is no such thing as Islam except in the minds of a minority of Sunni Arabs and Pakistanis who act as the Arabs apologists. They do not regard the Shia, and most other Muslim sects, as being Muslim.

"The Shia are no better than Jews".

So this stuff about the might of Islam and it being the fastest growing religion is stuff and nonsense.

Its simply a vicious cult in its death throes. The question for the West is how to limit the damage in a humane way. 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author jackie 
Date Created 18/07/2005 08:24:45 
Message Why islam? better to ask why any religion?
You are all dealing with outmoded belief systems that have as much credibility as a screen door on a submarine!
May as well believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden. A lot less harmful and quite relaxing.
If your going to believe the fevered rantings of people from 1300,2000 or 3000 years ago, believe in something that is happy and keeps the kiddies amused, Not something that if people read in it`s entirety would scare the bejesus out of them and make the kiddies cry.
Sorry, happy and religion, bit of an oxymoron, I`ll have to be more careful in future.
I bet you lot think Harry Potter is the work of the devil, HA! 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author MaureenDavies 
Date Created 19/07/2005 01:21:58 
Message Nigel: I do not see Islam as "a viscious cult in its death throws" at all.
I think christians have to be more friendly to Muslims who are a friendly, peace loving and law abiding people in general. We cannot equate the ordinary Muslim with the terrorists. They are as much aghast about the bombers activities as the rest of us, and they too lost loved ones in the bombings. I have spoken about this at church and some but not all members agree. Surely it is a christian duty to be charitable to others even if they hold different values?
Whether we like it or not, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The west has to accept this and show more charity. 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author 531 
Date Created 23/07/2005 16:13:18 
Message There is no racial or colour discrimination in Islam. All the human beings are equal and are supposed to treat each other like brothers. Qura’n says: The most honorable of you in the sight of God is he who is the most righteous of you. Chapter 49:13)

If this is so, why are blacks held in slavery in many arab nations?

In Christianity, White people (the Europeans) consider themselves a superior class over all the others especially the Blacks.

This maybe true of some whitesbut not all and I doubt a majority. The divide here is not black and white but it is heading towards muslim and others and you are creating that yourself. 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author Free Way 
Date Created 23/07/2005 19:27:46 
Message You said:

"There are three prominent Religions, which are known as the Religions of Book, Judaism with Torah (the Law of Moses) and Psalms of David, then is the Christianity with Old and New Testaments (Injeel), and the last is Islam with Qura’n which is in sequence of the former two religions."

And then said:

"Unfortunately these former Books are not in its original and true form. These Books have been revised a number of times by the “Eminent People” of the Christian Hierarchy right from the beginning. Also the religion was transformed to the Churchism."

But you are sadly mistaken because the Septuagint and Dead Sea Scrolls irrefutably prove that the Torah has remained unchanged since at least 250 B.C., a thousand years before the Qur’an was written. Since Islam claims otherwise, it’s a fraud, not a religion.

Not only is there a mountain of historical evidence that refutes Muhammad’s claim, reason alone will suffice. For the nation of Israel to have written Allah, Muhammad, Mecca, the Ka’aba, Arabic, Islam, Muslim, and the Five Pillars out of the Torah and Yahweh, the Messiah, Jerusalem, the Temple, Hebrew, Judaism, Jews, and the Ten Commandments in, requires a conspiracy infinitely beyond anything the world has ever known. A total suspension of rational thought is required to believe Allah. And then there is the little problem of motivation. Why would the nation of Israel collectively and comprehensively alter the totality of their scriptures and history in an attempt to foil a conman a thousand miles away and a thousand years distant? 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author Naufal Zamir 
Date Created 29/07/2005 23:33:57 
Message Assalamualaikum

There is a lot of misunderstanding about Islam. If people really sincerely wish to know what is Islam they have to have an open mind and try to search the TRUTH.

Islam cannot be learnt from Orientalists. Neither can Quran be understood by simple reading of it. There is a method to understand Quran. A little learning becomes dangerous when it comes to self-interpretation of Quran.

I think rather than getting bogged down with details or Islam which may or may not have different opinions, which neither proves or disproves anything - one who really wants to know Islam should ask -

Does God/Allah exist?
If God exist then is it rationally possible to believe the three in one stereo player theory or monotheism is the only plausible understanding?
If Allah/God exist then has He communicated to us?
If He has then which one is the authentic communication?
Are there Proofs that Quran is the word of Allah?
What are the proofs that Quran is still intact and preserved they way it was sent by Allah?

Looking at this website may help - www.harunyahya.com, there are lot more similar... just giving an example.

These are the basic questions rather than taking extracts from Quran without knowing or understanding the reason for revealation and history of that extract.

If the whole idea of having this group is hypocritical i.e. to allow Non-Muslims to denounce Islam - then May Allah help the owner of this website to become enlightened from ignorance.







 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author MaureenDavies 
Date Created 30/07/2005 09:31:13 
Message Naufal Zamir: Regarding your comments about non-Muslims who write on this site:- Many of us know more about Islamic culture, history and the Quran, than many Muslims do. I am not referring to academics here, but rather the ordinary so called person in the street.
Speaking for myself, I put myself into the category of having that knowledge, but choose to follow christianity rather than Islam. Islam falls short of many answers.
Rather than asking for non-Muslims to ask the questions you referred to, I would be asking Muslims to educate themselves in other perspectives on religion, ie. learning about other religions and trying to see other viewpoints. I gather from friends that this is not the case at present.
I admit that there is alot of bias from non-Muslims on this site, but there is also bias from Muslims. A couple of the writers here obviously have no ear to hear about anything else but Islam.
It is unfortunate that many people have associated peaceful and law abiding followers of Islam with terrorist activity. I feel that not enough has been done and said by the Muslim clerics to dis-associate from it.
Some of us(including myself) believe there is only one God by whatever name, and it would be a good idea to look for similarities between our religions rather than differences. I have said previously to Iftikhar that the way to achieve this is to have multi-faith schools. That is another story. 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author bazpartu 
Date Created 14/09/2005 17:10:07 
Message the following of Islam only seeks to opress those without any say. How can a movement/country/religion say they are compassionate/forgiving/peaceful when 30,000 people are crowded into a stadium to watch beheadings?? is this some sort of sick entertainment?
It confuses me that Islam calls to the world that they are being bullied by other cultures. 50% of terrorist in this world are islamic. Unnatural deaths occur at a higher rate in islamic countries. The Koran (an evil peice of work) actually calls for the hunting down of Jews Christaians and Infidels. Where is the proof there is a god in the firs place, to allow you to go on your violent crusades? Who gives muslims the right to think they are right and to persecute others?? Perhaps livinglike Mohammed has inspired you tolive like animals. It is well known that Mohammed (hellfire for him hopefully/inshallah) was a pirate, rapist, murderer etc - what has changed 1500 years on? Nothing. Islam is a danger to the rest of the world only if we allow it. Remember we have the technology to ultimately defeat you but choose not to use it because we are compassionate and believe that everyonehas the right to their own thoughts. This, whether you say so or not, is not allowed in Islam. If you do not follow islam you are an unbeliever and deserve to die - its there in the so called holy book. Its no better than the beano! The fact s religion is only a method to control society in an acceptable manner. Now that we have governments etc we can do this without fairy storys from a past that perhaps might not even existed. The true infidels are islamic - if only islam learned to live with others the way christians, hindus, jews, seikhs etc do the world would be safer. To put it another way ISLAM IS NO DIFFERENT TO FOOTBALL HOOLIGANS who attack others for the colour of shirt they wear or the movementthey follow. The best idea would be for islam to retreat from all western cultures (islam does seem very offended by the west - why then come here in the first place?) Islam is antagonistic and will always find someone to attack even if its within their own culture. ANGRY PEOPLE NOT YET ADAPTED TO 21ST CENTURY LIFE. I myself follow no religion yet when i look at the conflicts in the recent past they all have one common denominator - ISLAM. Look at Yugoslavia for example - ethnic cleansing is wrong yes but the islamic world were forcing their beliefs on society - the non islamic residents didnt want to have to send their kids to school in hijabs and why should they - ultimately islam got what it deserved, even if it was morally wrong it is better toprotect the majority rather than pander to,lets face it, a fundamentalist and extreme religion hell bent on continuing the suffering of human beings. The day we get calls to prayer over the tannoys in our UK cities is the day we unfortunately have to go to war. I hope it nevercomes to that but with islam in our world the future looksnothing but bleak. 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author nigel 
Date Created 09/03/2008 01:10:00 
Message "Contrary to what is stated in Qur’an that Injeel (the New Testament) is a revealed book of God, it is now a sort of Biography of Jesus Christ written by various Saints"

So, in your words, you know better than the quran.

Very interesting.

As there as copies of all the Gospels that predate the quran, you must be an apostate as by denying the Quran you have left Islam.

Perhaps you might stop cutting and pasting and start thinking?

If you believe that god pre-ordains everything, then why has he pre-ordained the failure of Islam for 800 years?

Perhaps there is a message in there somewhere?

Is he favouring the Shia?

Or have you got it horribly wrong? 
 
 
Topic Re: Why Islam! 
Author nigel 
Date Created 10/03/2008 01:01:32 
Message given the dire state of islam and muslim-majority countries, is not God's will manifest?

any faith which insists on stoning and amputation has clearly lost the plot.

any faith which kills adherents who leave it has become evil

any faith which praises terrorists will get zero sympathy for actions taken against it

everyone else has had enough of your tribal superstitions and their effect of the rest of the world.

the time is long past for religious wars - the world has moved on from that. nobody is scared of you, but we need to sort the problem whithout being sucked into the kind of hatred which consumes muslims. You are not scary, just rather sad. 
 
 
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